Are your sales and marketing teams struggling to align their goals and collaborate effectively?
You are absolutely not alone – many organizations face challenges when trying to bridge the divide between these two key departments. Miscommunication, misunderstanding, differing priorities, and a lack of shared vision can create friction that hinders overall growth. At the heart of this misalignment often lies one core issue: sales and marketing are operating in silos, each focused on their own metrics and definitions of success.
While these obstacles are common, they’re far from insurmountable. By fostering better cohesion across specialties, aligning goals around revenue, and creating feedback loops, businesses can transform the relationship between sales and marketing from cold and standoffish to collaborative. In this podcast, our team comes together to debunk stereotypes (e.g., marketers enjoy craft IPAs and Frisbee golf while salespeople are lanyard-wearing con artists) and discuss the root causes of friction. Representatives of both departments ideate ways to make their teams more effective and engaged in achieving the company’s bottom line.
In this episode of the Heartbeat Podcast, Conor Snell, AJ Alonzo, and Greg Cammarata dive into survey responses, share real-world anecdotes, and offer actionable tips for teams looking to drive better results through unity and shared understanding.
Transcript below:
Conor Snell: Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the Heartbeat Podcast with Digital Impulse and demandDrive. We’ll go around with intros. I’m Conor Snell, Director of Content Strategy.
AJ Alonzo: I’m AJ Alonzo, Director of Marketing.
Greg Cammarata: And I’m Greg Cammarata, Director of Sales.
CS: So as you can hear, we’ve got a full house of people across the sales and marketing sides of the business here to talk about, well, maybe airing our grievances. We’re discussing some of the friction that has historically existed between marketing and sales departments, and what an organization can do to, I guess, start seeing through those or realizing that some of these grievances might be exaggerated. AJ, do you want to take the lead on this discussion?
AJ: Sure thing. I wouldn’t say that these grievances are made up, but I do think it’s important to air them out before teams can really start collaborating effectively. Having underlying tension between sales and marketing tends to work against the organization in most cases. So, I thought it’d be a good idea to bring in someone like Greg, who has primarily worked in sales his entire professional life, and Conor, who’s been rooted in the marketing side without really venturing into the sales world. I think it’d be helpful for you two to talk through some of the common stereotypes that exist cross-departmentally—where these stereotypes come from, how true they really are—and then maybe have a little back-and-forth to figure out what sticks and what doesn’t. If we can’t do that, we can’t start working together effectively. That’s my philosophy here. Plus, we’ve got some good data to back up some of these stereotypes. We ran a survey ahead of inbound 2024, HubSpot’s big conference, and got some good anecdotal evidence from individuals in sales and marketing about what they think about one another. So, we can kind of cross reference back to that as well.
GC: Is that why you brought block boxing gloves?
AJ: I did bring boxing gloves in here, yeah.
GC: I think that was a strange choice.
AJ: Yeah, well, you thought it was decoration, but the gloves are literally going on, they’re not coming off. I did want to start by talking about why sales and marketing are often at odds. We did get some good answers from the survey that I just referenced about what happens when teams aren’t aligned properly.
I’d love for you guys to chime in here. If you notice any of this either internally or in client situations, it’d be great to hear about it. Oftentimes, sales and marketing don’t work well together because they dispute definitions about lead qualification. That was one of the top things people mentioned in the survey—marketing thinks something is qualified, while sales disagrees, and vice versa.
I don’t know if that’s anything that the two of you have experienced.
GC: Yeah, totally. I definitely see that a lot in what I do today as I direct our sales efforts at demandDrive. It’s obviously a very consultative sales process that integrates both sales and marketing.
So, we often find ourselves talking to both sales leaders and marketing leaders, or sometimes just executives within the company. And yeah, I’ve noticed this issue too. If a company has a relatively well-established marketing function, when I speak with sales leaders, they’ll sometimes admit—almost like it’s a secret—“Yeah, we really need to generate some outbound efforts because marketing just isn’t cutting it.”
On the flip side, marketing teams will say, “Hey, we need a sales development function to step in and actually follow up on these leads because sales isn’t cutting it right now.”
I think there are a few different factors contributing to this. Lead definition is definitely a major one. But really, it’s a mixture of multiple things.
CS: Yeah, that makes sense. I agree. I mean, from the marketing side, it’s easy to feel like you’re hitting your lead targets and thinking, “Look, we’re driving leads with the programs we have in place.” But if those leads don’t turn into sales, it’s like, “What am I supposed to do about that?”
And then on the flip side, sales will say, “Well, the leads aren’t converting because they’re not the right leads.” The marketing program might be effective at driving conversions, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s bringing in the right people or that they’re doing the right thing.
I think a big issue is that the teams aren’t always aligned towards the same overarching goal, like business growth and actually selling the product, instead of just focusing on leads versus conversions. It’s easy to get caught up in that initial layer of goals without seeing the bigger picture. When I hear marketing complaints about sales, as a marketer, it makes me think that maybe the marketing team isn’t aiming in the right direction to start with, if you know what I mean.
AJ: No, I hear you for sure, because if you’re measured on different things, it creates a disconnect, right? Sales goals are typically tied directly to company revenue and the bottom line, while marketing goals, although they do tie to the bottom line if you dig a few layers deeper, often focus on metrics like the total number of MQLs or conversions.
And Conor, to your point, it can feel like, “I did my job, so why can’t sales do theirs?” That actually ties into the second most common response I received for this question: the perception that the other team just does their job without considering the long-term impact on the other side. It’s the mindset of, “I’m only responsible for my number, not yours.” I think that way of thinking really gets in the way of properly aligning these two teams.
CS: I feel like it’s easy for a marketing team to get kind of calcified, thinking, “I have a process, I drive leads, and once the leads are in, it doesn’t matter what happens from there.” But I think more people, especially on the marketing side, are starting to reach the point where it’s almost better to drive fewer leads if those leads are good, as long as it comes back to revenue.
It’s really about taking a revenue-driven, RevOps, and revenue-focused approach to sales and marketing, which is such a hot topic right now. I think that’s because people are realizing that you can drive leads all day, but if it doesn’t turn into business, then it’s kind of just wasted time for everyone.
GC: I feel like that’s in line with the trend we’re seeing. Obviously, there will always be separate sales and marketing teams, but the idea of revenue teams is becoming more important now. I think it’s purely due to the misalignment where marketing generates tons of leads that don’t convert, and sales isn’t working closely with the marketing function to create closed-won deals. When that happens, it’s ineffective for everyone, and everyone ends up frustrated.
So, I feel like that’s why the emphasis needs to be on what drives results. And that’s the trend I’m seeing a lot, even on the marketing side, like you just mentioned, Conor—where less can be more, as long as it’s leading to closed-won deals.
CS: Totally. And honestly, as a content marketer, the best intelligence I can get about effective marketing often comes from sales. It’s from those conversations with someone who’s ready to make a purchase—their needs and the challenges they’re facing.
If we can address those earlier in the marketing funnel, it’s going to make the marketing results better because we’re using intelligence that’s not just based on engagement with marketing campaigns. Does that make sense? That kind of communication is so helpful to marketing, and I feel like in so many organizations, that coordination just doesn’t exist at all.
GC: I don’t want to jump the gun, and I’m not sure if you want to touch on this too, but I feel like that’s something we’ve done really well here. Not everyone, of course, but many of the people in marketing leadership positions, like where we are, have a background in sales.
AJ, for example—you started as an SDR, so you understand.
AJ: Yeah. That’s why I’m in the middle here because I’ve done both of these jobs.
GC: I know, and that’s been really helpful. I mean, a lot of people have that negative relationship with marketing, but I’m lucky because I haven’t really experienced it firsthand. I’ve seen it with companies that come to us, where we take a look under the hood and learn more about what’s going on. You find out about the different factions—who likes who, who doesn’t, who’s doing well, and who blames the other side for not doing well.
But on my side, at least, I feel like you’ve always been very aware of what needs to be prioritized. We’ve never really had that negative, head-butting dynamic where you tell me to follow up with certain leads, and I come back saying, “These leads aren’t valid; they’re not real leads.” You’ve always had a good sense of feeding the sales function with leads that are more likely to convert.
AJ: Right, and I think part of it is because that’s literally how I’m measured. My success is evaluated by whether the work I contribute impacts the overall revenue of the organization. Versus what we were talking about earlier, where my goal might just be to drive X number of MQLs.
If I hit that goal and then say, “Alright, Greg, go for it,” and you come back saying, “These leads are all terrible,” I might respond, “Yeah, but they meet my qualification standards, so too bad.” That’s where I think a lot of the friction really comes into play.
GC: I see one thing that’s in line with what you’re saying, AJ, and it’s a trend I’m noticing more and more. It’s not necessarily about an individual in marketing, but I feel like certain marketing teams are almost being compensated in a way that’s similar to salespeople now. Do you guys see that too?
AJ: 100%, yeah. Taking it a step or two further—where it’s not just about driving X number of MQLs but seeing how many of those turn into opportunities and result in closed-won revenue—has made a huge impact. I know some of our clients and others I know in the marketing industry have found that looking ahead in that way, and having some of your compensation tied to overall company growth rather than just individual department goals, has been a big shift.
It changes the mindset to, “Okay, I’m invested in making sure, Greg, that you have the support or materials you need to effectively sell our service to the people I’m driving to our website,” rather than the old way of thinking, “Well, I’ve done my job, so now it’s on you to take it from here.”
GC: Yeah, I mean, it’s classic—this is more on the sales side, I guess—but it’s that idea that the commission plan drives the results you’re looking for. It’s just a statement of fact. And it extends to the marketing team as well. If you incentivize them in a certain way, you’re going to see the types of leads that actually turn into closed-won deals.
CS: Totally. I mean, it’s just going to make the job of marketing more enjoyable and more sustainable in the long term to feel like you’re working toward something beyond just generating leads. Knowing that your efforts are contributing to actual business growth and having an impact that’s measurable in dollars makes working on a campaign much more rewarding. It’s more fulfilling than just thinking, “I need to get enough people to fill out this form so I can pass those leads to sales.” It gives me a different feeling when I know that what I’m doing is turning into revenue.
GC: Do you have any nightmare stories about that? For me, my experience is more sales-focused, working with marketing teams, and it’s been mostly positive. But maybe not necessarily within work—maybe you’ve heard stories where it’s gone the other way, where sales has been just completely unrealistic?
CS: Yeah, either sales has really specific lead qualification needs that, as a marketer, you look at the targeting capabilities and what’s possible for audience outreach, and you realize that some level of filtering has to happen at the sales stage. You can’t serve up a perfect lead for every single person that comes through. That’s one side of it—figuring out what amount of qualification is reasonable. It’s something internal teams need to work out between themselves to decide what an acceptable amount of “chaff” is that has to be filtered out during the sales process.
Also, just understanding what matters to the audience is key. Sometimes, it feels like the marketing audience and the sales audience can seem like two totally different groups, even when there’s one customer focus. I see a lot of marketers feeling like they’re spinning their wheels, generating a ton of leads because a particular marketing strategy or messaging is really effective at driving conversions, but then the sales team can’t or doesn’t do anything with it. There’s often a lot of frustration when a marketing team is thinking, “We’re driving tons of leads,” but sales isn’t closing them. That’s a tough situation to be in.
AJ: Yeah, you don’t want to point those fingers.
CS: Totally
GC: When I was an SDR working on behalf of one of our clients, I remember having that exact scenario. I basically had two points of contact—one was the VP of Sales, and the other was the VP of Marketing. It felt like they were running two different companies with completely different directions, which really pulled the team apart.
It wasn’t a toxic environment, but they just didn’t communicate as well as they should have. I think part of the issue, which ties back to what we were talking about earlier, might have been that the team wasn’t compensated in a way that aligned everyone toward the same goals. Those weekly meetings were definitely a bit tense.
AJ: Yeah, I can imagine. You both touched on the other two main reasons why most organizations struggle with alignment: communication and shared vision. Communication often isn’t done frequently enough or effectively enough. It’s more than just pinging Greg on Slack to tell him to do something; there’s a lack of regular cross-department meetings or function leaders coming together to discuss overarching strategy.
That was a huge gap for companies that weren’t aligned. The last issue is sharing the same vision. We talked about that a bit—my vision might be filling the top of the funnel with as many leads as possible, while sales’ vision is closing as many deals as possible. Those goals aren’t at odds, but they don’t share the same common denominator. You both, through this conversation, really touched on the common problems that arise when these two teams aren’t aligned.
CS: Totally. At a smaller marketing org with a sales function, just starting those conversations at the leadership level is a no-brainer. Setting up a regular call can make a big difference. In a larger enterprise organization where teams are more segregated, if you’re a marketer, taking the initiative to build a relationship with a salesperson and understand what they’re talking about and the challenges they face could honestly make you stand out in your marketing department more than just being a successful lead driver.
There’s a degree to which pushing the team toward a broader, revenue-based approach is a great way to stand out and move into the future faster than your co-workers.
AJ: One of the things we’ve suggested to clients and have seen clients come to us with is the need for leadership buy-in to make alignment happen. But if that doesn’t exist yet, Conor, I think you’re spot on—someone has to start the fire. It can’t grow unless someone takes the initiative to reach out to their sales or marketing counterpart, build some type of feedback loop, and get information flowing back and forth.
To your point earlier, as a content marketer, you’d rather understand what sales is hearing from people and use that insight for content further up the funnel. That kind of feedback loop is crucially important for these two teams. You can even include other departments, like customer success, which can contribute valuable information to that loop. It helps make content more compelling, improves targeting, and ensures messaging is more consistent. There’s so much that can come from it, but it literally can’t start until the two teams begin communicating. Someone has to take that initiative, for sure.
CS: It can be totally self-serving too. If I’m thinking, “I need my campaigns to be better, so I need sales intelligence,” that’s a great way to start the conversation. It has an immediate impact on the work you’re doing.
AJ: I think we’ve been too nice so far—I’m going to say it. We’ve been very cordial between the two of you, but I want to talk about some of the common stereotypes that get thrown around when it comes to sales and marketing teams.
Greg, I know that for sales folks, there are a lot of stereotypes about marketing, like being focused on artistic and creative traits and not as much on the analytical side. People often say marketing is out of touch with the larger business needs and only focuses on making campaigns look pretty or not fully understanding what customers actually want.
What are some of the other things you’ve heard? And I’m not saying you need to dig into some deep well of frustration with marketing, but what are some of the issues that come up when you think, “Marketing isn’t doing this” or “I’m not being supported the way I need”? Maybe these are things you’ve heard from clients or other salespeople, so it’s not necessarily directed at Conor. Can you talk about some of those stereotypes you’ve come across?
GC: Yeah, I mean, I think we’ve touched on a lot of these already. There’s the perception that marketers aren’t necessarily focused on the metrics that matter, like they’re just concerned with generating as many leads as possible without caring if they actually turn into opportunities. Maybe it’s not that they don’t care—it’s more that they just don’t understand as deeply or aren’t as analytical.
I also think sales sometimes feels that marketers don’t have a high level of emotional intelligence (EQ), which can be surprising. And then there are the lighter stereotypes, like how marketers might be seen as the type of people who are really into disc golf or craft beer. That one’s a bit pointed, but you get the idea.
AJ: As someone who’s been known to enjoy a craft beer on the disc golf course I feel personally attacked.
GC: I don’t know, but that’s definitely the starter type persona we’ve been talking about. I think we’ve covered most of the general points, though. The main thing, really, is just being a bit out of touch with what actually generates revenue. At the end of the day, that’s the only reason why a salesperson would be frustrated with marketing—if they’re doing things that ultimately impact the salesperson’s ability to earn commission. And that frustration comes from marketing not being connected to what actually drives revenue.
AJ: One answer that I thought was interesting—besides craft beer, which nobody brought up—was this one-off response in the survey where someone just wrote down the word sneaky. No one else mentioned it, but I wanted to bring it up because it stood out as an outlier compared to the rest of the responses we got.
Greg, do you agree or disagree with that? Sneaky? I even wrote in my notes, “I have no idea what this means.” Why would someone put that down? But I’m curious—have you ever thought of marketing as sneaky?
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GC: Not really, but maybe in the context of a marketing strategy, like guerrilla marketing—sneaky in that way, sure. But that’s the only way I could think of using that word to describe marketing.
AJ: Because I almost think of it the other way. Yeah, I would associate that stereotype more with sales than marketing. Sneaky isn’t the best word, but maybe something like unscrupulous.
GC: Yeah, like not forthright—being a bit more, you know, deceptive. That aligns more with the stereotype of sales as not being trustworthy.
AJ: Exactly. Words like untrustworthy, aggressive, or even swindlers and sneaky fit more with the image of sales. Conor, do you share those ideas about sales stereotypes? What comes to mind when you think of salespeople?
CS: I mean, I think of the used car salesman stereotype—kind of sleazy, very charismatic, and able to close a deal with someone who doesn’t really need what they’re selling. That’s the typical image of a salesperson: driven to make a sale at any cost. Honestly, though, I think it’s easier to mislead as a marketer than as a salesperson. A salesperson eventually has to deliver something, while marketing can make promises like, “Here’s what you can expect,” and then the salesperson has to be the one to say, “Actually, that’s not exactly what we do.”
GC: Yeah, I feel like the used car salesman model would never work in B2B sales. It’s just not how buyers operate today. They do a lot of research, usually have multiple calls, and build their understanding before committing. As a B2B salesperson, you need to be more like a consultant. You have to know your stuff, build credibility, and there’s no room for being untrustworthy. Maybe that kind of tactic worked back in the ’70s, but not now.
AJ: Yeah, that approach is hard to pull off in 2024.
GC: Exactly, and I’m not saying it’s a good thing, like I wish I could go around swindling people. But there’s just no advantage to being that way, even if you wanted to. You’d come across as having “commission breath,” and no one would want to deal with you.
CS: There’s definitely a preconceived notion that salespeople don’t think they need marketing to sell. Like, “Just put me in front of the client and I’ll handle it.” Marketing is seen as a way to make that process easier, but anyone who’s been in B2B for more than six months knows you need both teams working together for real success.
AJ: It’s funny you mention that, because one of the survey responses stood out to me. I’m not sure if it was from a salesperson or a marketer because it took shots at both sides. When asked what the most annoying thing the other department does, the response was, “Marketing tries to do sales’ job by delivering more pre-qualified leads, and sales ends up reaching up-funnel to work unqualified leads.” This ends up spreading both teams too thin and costs more than if they stuck to their primary roles.
That ties into what you said, Conor—there are probably still salespeople who think they don’t need marketing and will work unqualified leads to see what happens. On the flip side, marketing sometimes decides the leads aren’t qualified enough and looks for another way to pre-qualify them further. That can work if there’s the right infrastructure in place, but if either team goes rogue, which was another common theme in the survey, it breaks down operations.
GC: Yeah, I’ve definitely heard stories like that. A salesperson might go after leads too early or get frustrated with marketing and decide, “I don’t need you, I’ll do it myself.” That kind of rogue behavior shows a lack of team mentality and usually ends up hurting everyone in the long run. You can’t have a lone wolf doing whatever they want.
AJ: Exactly. Trying to play the hero. I saw other comments where people viewed sales as wanting to take the ball to the end zone themselves, even if that wasn’t the play that was drawn up.
GC: I think that also disrupts consistency, right? The main goal of a marketing and sales function is to generate revenue predictably. If one person isn’t following the playbook, it disrupts the flow and hurts the entire company or team.
CS: That’s a great point. From the marketing side, there’s sometimes this idea that, “We could just close deals without sales—we just need marketing that’s driven right to the point of conversion and becomes revenue.” But that thinking overlooks changes in public behavior and perception, which can affect conversion rates. Having dedicated salespeople brings stability to that process in a way that pure marketing can’t. Removing the human element, or a dedicated sales relationship, can cheapen the product. It leans into the worst aspects of isolation in human behavior. Having someone to talk to when making a purchase is beneficial for the brand, and keeping those connections makes the whole process work better.
AJ: So, are you anti-product-led growth?
CS: No, but it can’t be your only strategy, for sure.
AJ: I get that. You’re right. There are definitely products I’ve purchased solely based on marketing—things that are super transactional, like enablement software or conversation recording tools. If it’s just a few dollars per seat per month, I don’t need to talk to a salesperson. But when I run into an issue or need an upgrade, if there’s no salesperson to help, it does feel like a cheaper product compared to competitors that have a sales team as part of their approach.
CS: Especially for enterprise customers. They need that extra support; it just can’t be fully self-serve.
AJ: Exactly. That was good. The gloves can come off now; you guys were tough enough on each other. I want to end this with some positive takeaways from the survey. We asked people about common stereotypes, but we also asked about the best traits shared by salespeople and marketers. For marketers, we got answers like adaptable, wearing many hats, empathetic (which is ironic, given the negative stereotypes), consistent, curious, and bold. Greg, this is your chance to make amends—clear the air and get on Conor’s and my good side. What are some of the best traits you see in the marketers you’ve worked with, both internally and at client organizations?
GC: I’d say some of the best traits I’ve seen in marketers include being understanding. One of the negatives I mentioned earlier was not being in touch with results that drive revenue, but I’ve seen the opposite too—marketers who really understand how their work impacts the business.
Curiosity is another great trait, and I’ve seen that in both sales and marketing professionals. Some of the best marketing people I’ve worked with, including you, AJ, are naturally curious. If they come across something interesting, they’re eager to dig deeper and see if there’s potential to optimize or improve. They’re always looking for new strategies and asking, “What can we do differently? What’s not being done at the highest level?” That kind of mindset is what stands out to me.
AJ: I think that curiosity lends itself well to alignment in general. If you’re curious about, as you said, making a campaign more effective or generating more leads, or you try a strategy and it works—maybe not against all odds but after testing—it’s important to dig into why it worked. Communicating back and forth between sales and marketing is essential to understanding what led to that success and figuring out how to replicate it and improve on it. That iterative approach is where curiosity really supports alignment.
Conor, on your side, some of the top traits people mentioned for sales were persistence and resilience. We all know those are common salesperson traits, which can be positive or negative, depending on how they’re used. But there were also interesting ones like trustworthy, personable, self-motivated, and even detached, meaning they don’t take things too personally. What would you add to that list? What are some of the best traits you’ve seen in the salespeople you’ve worked with?
CS: I would definitely add that there’s a real factor to sales. When you’re doing sales, you’re on the ground talking to people who have genuine needs. As a marketer, it’s easy to get caught up in pie-in-the-sky creative ideas, which can be an asset, but having real, on-the-ground intelligence from salespeople who are on the front lines and willing to be honest is invaluable.
I like coordinating with sales teams because they’ll be straightforward and say, “This messaging isn’t going to work with the clients we talk to,” or, “This strategy isn’t a good one.” So, I’d definitely say that a key trait is just being real—just real people.
AJ: I like that. One of the funnier traits that came up for salespeople was charming. I think that’s such an interesting one because, as you mentioned earlier, Conor, there’s that ability to sell anything to anyone—the charm of a used car salesperson. It’s funny how some of these traits can be viewed either positively or negatively, depending on your perspective.
It really comes down to whether you see someone as a stereotype or as a valued member of the revenue team. That lens can flip a trait from being a negative to a positive, or vice versa, which I find so interesting.
CS: It’s totally necessary. It’s the future honestly.
GC: AJ, you don’t think I’m charming.
AJ: I didn’t say that Greg.
GC: Just curious.
AJ: Hey, curiosity is a great trait. Well, did you guys have anything else you wanted to hash out before we wrap up? Anything you’d like to say to each other as cross-department counterparts within the revenue team?
CS: I don’t think so—just that there’s clearly a ton of opportunity here. I’m looking forward to working more closely with the sales team; it makes marketing better. We hadn’t really had that until we combined forces and started getting dedicated sales intelligence, and I can already feel the impact.
GC: I feel the same way. To the earlier point, we should be good at integrating sales and marketing since that’s what we do. It seems like everyone here is on the same page—sales and marketing folks alike. I’m honestly just excited for us to keep doing great work.
AJ: Well, thanks, guys. I appreciate you duking it out for the audience for a bit. I think we aired and cleared the air as needed to make this effective.
CS: Agreed. Thanks, guys—this was great. And thanks to everyone for listening. Feel free to check us out at digitalimpulse.com and demanddrive.com. If you need help getting your sales and marketing teams on the same page, we can definitely help. Thanks, everyone!
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